Holocaust and Armenian Genocide Compared

Hitler Quote a Proof of Armenian genocide?
The Malta Tribunals & Nuremberg Tribunals
Holocaust is Extremely Well-Documented without Forgeries
Many Neutral Observations
No evidence for an Armenian genocide thesis!
Mein Kampf by Hitler
World Recognition without Debate
Jews and Armenians, completely different lives
Nazi Germany and the Ottoman Empire
Ottoman War Effort - Middle Eastern Theatre of World War I
Death Tolls
Minorities
Ottoman archives are free for everyone to access
A Summary of Differences between the Armenian genocide theory and the proven Holocaust
What were the Armenians doing in World War II?


Some Armenians have compared the events prior to the collapse of the Ottoman Empire to the Holocaust. This comparison is very far-fetched, let's consider all the details of the Holocaust and the Armenian Rebellion.

Hitler Quote a Proof of Armenian genocide?

They claimed "When Hitler was asked about what will the rest of the world do about his ‘final solution’ (his attempt to exterminate the Jews) he replied that it will be forgotten, like the Armenians." Or more usually claimed by Armenians as Hitler saying while he was thinking out loud about whether he should exterminate the Jews "Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?". <1>



This quote was claimed from a source that is a forgery written by an unknown person on plain piece of paper and labeling it as a "Hitler's second speech" even though he made only one speech that day.-2-

Lowry, Heath W., The U.S. Congress and Adolf Hitler on the Armenians, Political Communication and Persuasion, New York, III/2 (1985), pp. 111-140. wrote:
The assertion that Hitler made a reference to the Armenians in any context whatsoever is without foundation.

Professor Justin McCarthy, Louisville University, Kentucky, U.S.A., From Proceedings of Symposium on International Terrorism wrote:

We now know that, like the infamous Hitler Quote, the so-called extermination orders of Talat Pasha were forgeries. The only relevant Ottoman documents that have come to light indicate a generally solicitous attitude toward deported Armenians.

Armenian Genocide proponents are known for fabricating facts and quotes from famous figures in order to support their claim.

The Malta Tribunals & Nuremberg Tribunals

Ottoman officials were held in the island of Malta for two and a half years and without lawyers. A predecessor to the Nuremberg trials, even with all the evidence and archives of the Ottoman Empire at their fingertips they failed to find any evidence supporting an Armenian genocide thesis. In fact, the Ottoman archives, since they were in the hands of the British, were handed to an Armenian to archive and sort through any evidence of crimes against humanity. The British Foreign Office contacted the U.S. State Department and asked them for any evidence that might be used as evidence in a court against Ottoman officials.

All the propaganda of World War I was pointed out to be just that, propaganda. The Ottoman officials were released, only to be killed later in other nations by Armenian terrorists. The Nuremberg trials however, did find the Nazi officials guilty with overwhelming evidence and documentation of their crimes.

Holocaust is Extremely Well-Documented without Forgeries

Second, the Holocaust was well documented, with Allied soldiers witnessing concentration camps and finding millions of Nazi prisoners who were obviously tortured. In addition, they had video footage of mass graves and piles of bodies, with truckloads of photos. The Armenian Genocide doesn't have a shred of video evidence; many of the photographs are unidentified and unknown whether it is Turkish dead or Armenian dead. In addition, the Armenians have used an image of a pile of skulls in many of their posters; however, it is later found out that it was a picture from Russia that an artist depicted the dead of the Bolshevik Revolution which had nothing to do with Armenians. Armenians have also been caught using many fake photos and photoshopped images to convince others.

Many Neutral Observations

Third, the Nazi documentation and archives are an indisputable fact, and the Allies found thousands of documents of orders from high commanders ordering mass killings, the building of gas chambers, and the use of bodies in an industrial fashion as raw materials as expressed in the Final Solution of Hitler. In fact, many Nazi officials and soldiers admitted to the atrocities and as a defense said they had to do what they were ordered to do. Turks simply claim there is no genocide because the government never ordered one. Germany admitted its genocide because of the fact that it was well documented and easily provable, while the Armenian genocide theory is still very skeptical and subject to heated debates by a growing number of Western Historians not only Turks.

No evidence for an Armenian genocide thesis!

However, in the Ottoman archives there is not a shred of evidence of orders or commands from higher authority to commit any atrocities. In fact, there are documents ordering the execution of Ottoman soldiers who have been witnessed attacking or committing crimes against Ottoman Civilians (Armenians). The documentation only states protective relocation of Armenian populations in Eastern Turkey where most of the civil war had occurred. There are no witnesses or evidence from soldiers of other nations, that the Ottomans committed any atrocities. In fact, there was a Russian general who had sent a telegram stating that if the Armenians were not removed from the war front that he would resign. He stated this because he was tired of seeing mutilated and burned corpses of dead Turks and Ottomans that the Armenian rebels were creating. Although there are some witnesses of non-Armenian origin who have claimed there is an Armenian Genocide, have usually been found to either have anti-Islamic political views or had hated the Ottoman Empire for its politics or policies.

Mein Kampf by Hitler

Third, Hitler has written in his book Mein Kampf that he wanted to get rid of the Jews. He explicitly threatened Jews in public speeches and many Nazi soldiers have received orders from him and his commanders to exterminate Jews. There are many audio and video evidence that prove the Nazi era hate and extermination of the Jews. Yet there is not a single credible Turkish source claiming the Armenian genocide exists. No historian of Turkish or Ottoman origin ever admits the existence of it (Taner Akcam is not a historian, he's a sociologist; Orhan Pamuk is a fiction writer). In fact there are Armenian historians who have admitted that the Armenian genocide theory is false. Not many Nazi officials have denied the crime of genocide unless they were under trial themselves. If Ottomans really committed genocide and they were accused of it, they would have no problem quickly pointing their fingers at Enver Pasha, Talat Pasha, and other Turkish generals. Especially since the Turkish nation fought against the Ottoman leadership.

World Recognition without Debate

In addition, the Holocaust is widely recognized throughout the world except maybe in Iran (ignorant leaders), that it is truly genocide. The Armenian genocide theory is widely viewed by neutral positions as an on-going controversy and debate that historians may one day decide on but are in disagreement with. There are only a handful of countries that actually recognize the Armenian Genocide, each have a large majority of Armenians with lobbyists and voters pressuring politicians to pass such bills. These countries include but are not limited to, are France, Switzerland, Russia, Lebanon, and Argentina. Notice though if you were to research the Armenian Diaspora, you would find large populations of Armenians in all those countries that recognize the events.

Jews and Armenians, completely different lives

During World War II and before, many Jews lived in Ghettos and were classified as second class citizens. During the Nazi regime, many Jews were taken out of German schools, were forced to wear a yellow Star of David indicating the person is Jewish and were not even allowed in public places. Armenians and Turks look very much alike; in fact they have lived together in peace for centuries. There was no initial hatred against Armenians until Armenian rebellions in the East. Nonetheless, the Western Armenians remained unharmed and untouched throughout World War I. There was no identifying symbol to indicate who is an Armenian and who is not. Most of the Armenians knew Turkish and could easily blend in if they wanted. Only cities of known Armenian populations were relocated to Syria in order to stop the rebellion and civil war that was rampant in the region. The Armenians had their own schools, churches, and lived alongside many Turkish, Greek, Kurdish, and Azerbaijani communities.

Nazi Germany and the Ottoman Empire

When Nazi Germany began exterminating the Jews they were at the peak of their power, and were actually winning the war. Hitler believed the world would fall under Nazi power in a few years. They had the money, time, and manpower to exterminate the Jews and even engineer their bodies into raw materials. However, the Ottoman Empire ever since the 1800s was declining and even was labeled the Sick Man of Europe. It had to fight at least three rebellions in the last 10 years, and was at war in several fronts against the Allies at a time when the Central Powers were loosing and the Ottoman Empire was on the verge of collapse (which it did a couple of years after the supposed genocide). Now if you were a Sultan or military leader, would you waste your time, limited money, and soldiers to exterminate a small minority of Armenians? You would spend money on ending any Armenian Rebellions which the Ottoman Empire arrested many of their leaders but it was never enough. You would spend most of your money and armies fighting Russians in the North East, and British in the South East. With Greeks planning attacks all the time in the West and France and Britain creating chaos in the Middle East, is it really possible to exterminate 1.5 million Armenians? Of course not, there weren't any means of mass murder during that time except by man-power.

Ottoman War Effort - Middle Eastern Theatre of World War I

The Battle of Galipoli was raging in 1915, beginning April 25th 1915 (so how could there have been a "beginning of the genocide" on April 24th 1915? When Ottoman forces were preoccupied with getting ready for the war in Gallipoli?), against the British, French and Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZACs) in Western Turkey, the Dardanelles, which eventually the Turks were able to defeat the enemy forces, but with many losses. There was a lot of fighting in the Mesopotamian Campaign and the Caucasus Campaign, since October 29th 1914, the Ottomans were deep in war, and the Ottoman Empire suffering a crushing defeat at the Battle of Sarikamis in by December, 1914. How can an empire plan and execute a mass extermination campaign in the midst of all this strategy-time for a war that would be the eventual defeat of the empire--this puzzles my mind as to what the Armenian propagandists are trying to make you think the state at which Ottoman Empire is in. They want you to think the Ottoman Empire the once powerful empire decided out of the blue one day to exterminate part of the Armenian population in the East (They themselves admit the Ottomans did not exterminate anyone in major cities like Istanbul, Izmir, Bursa, and Ankara!). Now wikipedia is filled with a growing problem of Armenian nationalists that continuously troll articles dealing with Turks, such as the one referenced for the information the AGH team presented here, to push an atmosphere of Ottoman's being murderous genocide perpetrators. Which people easily believe because they know nothing about the Ottoman Empire, or World War I, and automatically but wrongly assume Muslims must always kill Christians.-3-

Study at this image, the red areas are major areas of battles of the Ottoman Empire. Notice how Armenia and the lands surrounding it was engulfed in war, starvation, and disease, a major factor in the large death tolls of Armenians. The fact that hundreds of thousands of Armenian revolutionaries joined the Russian's in the war, and many joined the French legions in Syria:

Death Tolls

All historians world wide believe that approximately 6 million Jews were exterminated in the Holocaust, including a total number of 9 to 11 million victims. This is generally agreed upon by all historians; however, with the Armenian Genocide, numbers range from 100,000 to 1,500,000 Armenian dead. Why don’t they ever count the Muslims that died? In addition, many Armenians died at the hands of gangs and armed civilians not by soldiers or government officials. The range of dead Armenians is so wide because some try to increase the number of dead baselessly for dramatic purposes and others try to guess from Armenian populations. The reality is, the numbers are completely unknown, and cannot go over the Ottoman’s estimated population of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire, which is around 1.5 million in 1914. -4-

Minorities

The Jews in Europe were a large minority, but the Armenians were a small minority that is smaller than some of the other non-Muslim minorities of the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Empire is a diverse empire that allows local governors to have their own laws as long as they pay taxes and express their allegiance to the Ottoman Empire. In fact, it is one of the few empires who allowed religious freedom with the exception of a tax on non-Muslim populations. However, churches, synagogues, and other religious temples still remain in tact from the Ottoman era, so there was no religious hate against Armenians. In fact, some of the Armenian Church’s religious leaders inside Turkey today even express the Armenian Genocide as a fairy tale.
Ottoman archives are free for everyone to access

All Jewish and German archives have been open to the public that clearly report evidence of genocide. The Ottoman/Turkish archives are also open to the public, and have invited historians around the world to study their archives. The Armenian archives are closed and when asked why, it is expressed that there is no question of the Armenian Genocide and that it is undisputable and therefore unnecessary to open Armenian archives to the public. Interesting, many wonder what the Armenians have to hide. Armenian historians and Armenian Genocide supporters also refuse public debate that Turkey and pro-Turkish historians always want to try. Perhaps many of the researchers that support the Armenian Genocide have found out that they may be wrong about their ideas and don’t want to publicly embarrass themselves to the well prepared Turkish-side of the issue.

A Summary of Differences between the Armenian genocide theory and the proven Holocaust

- There were no hate speeches in the Ottoman Empire against Armenians; There were in Nazi Germany.
- Armenians target Turks as a whole when the blame-train comes by, not differentiating between generations, and saying the Turks are just as guilty for denying the genocide. Jews blame Nazi Germany at the time, and the party leadership, and the followers who committed the genocide.
- Jews were identified by the Star of David to before the Holocaust so that the Nazis can identify them easily when the genocide comes and they were able to be racist towards Jews more easily. Armenians could not be identified unless you follow them into their church.
- Jews were separated into communities isolated into Ghettos. Armenians were not separated but some villages were known to be mostly Armenians.
- Jews were the continuous target of prejudice and racism by Germans which was well documented. While Armenians were never a target of hate for the 600 years they were ruled over, they ruled their own region with their own local government.
- Jews were hated and prejudiced against before the Nazi regime, Hitler acted on these age old prejudices, however there is no such history of that with Armenians and Turks.
- Jews did not rebel against the Nazis. Armenians rebelled many times before 1915, and even during 1890s when their rebel organizations first formed, before Armenians even died by any Turks.
- There were no Jewish generals, no Jewish soldiers, rebels, or rebel organizations that fought against the Nazis. In contrast, Armenian organizations, generals who committed many massacres for the Armenians, were abundant.
- Jews did not own weapons, they did not have mass cache storage of armaments. Armenians had thousands of arms, easily brought to the Ottoman Empire (since there is no way to border patrol the vast Ottoman Empire) by the British, French, and Russians who continuously incited Armenians to rebel. They had every right to, because they were at war with the Ottomans, it was the best British strategy "Divide and Conquer" which is more detailed as "Divide the people through language, nationalism, and religion and then Conquer them while they are fighting each other"
What were the Armenians doing in World War II?

As expressed in Samuel A. Weems's book, the Armenians were declared as Aryan pure in 1943 by Hitler because of the on-going support in Armenia and abroad by Armenians support of racism against Jews and support of the Nazi Regime.


Sources
ANCA Propaganda Team - http://www.anca.org/genocide_resource/quotes.php
Armenian Blogspot - http://armenians-1915.blogspot.com/2007/09/1931-original-documentation-for-hitler.html
Middle Eastern Theatre of WWI - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Eastern_theatre_of_World_War_I
* -

Comments
do u really think all of

do u really think all of those victims randomly thought up their terrible stories of death marches? do u really think all those people randomly died at the same year in history? do u rally that the New York Times and other major US papers made up the articles that were printed about the killings in the Ottoman Empire? Not all genocides are done the same way. Just because the Armenian Genocide was different than the Holocaust doesnt mean it didnt exist. If I were u, i would seriously rethink my beliefs.

reply quote
Please understand that massacres do not equal genocide.

This website has never said Armenians didn't die. The website has never said Armenians didn't suffer. This website has never said Armenians made up any stories. But you sir, are confusing the meaning of killings and massacre with the legal definition of genocide. There is a big difference.

If you actually read the article, you'd notice that the Holocaust is a proven genocide proven by Nazi documentation, witnesses, and thousands of sources of solid evidence.

Though it does not EXCUSE any killings, it does show the real tensions between Muslims and Christians and the fact that both sides committed inhumane atrocities.

You cannot say a genocide existed, because a genocide is just the proof of intent to eradicate a minority. You can say if massacres existed or not, because these leave physical evidence. Genocide is an arbitrary crime attributed to governments who commit massacres or encourage them in order to wipe out a GROUP. This was not the case of the Ottoman Empire and the Armenians.

Armenians died yes, but just because large Armenians died doesn't mean you should ignore the large death tolls of the Ottoman Muslims by Armenian volunteer units, gangs, and rebels. It should also be important to note that there is still no proof of intent by the Ottoman government to eliminate Armenians, because they had no motive to eliminate the Armenians. They had motives to move Armenian populations away from war-zones, but wasting money, time, effort, and man-power to exterminate a race is just too far fetched.

If I were you I would look up the definition of genocide by the United Nations, and then find some documents that prove the Ottoman's genocidal intent before I argue about it. What you'll find is, even Armenian historians struggle to find authentic evidence of a genocide, some point to forgeries, some point to death tolls and speculation as proof.

Armenians may have died in large numbers, but do not assume it is proof of a genocide, because Turks also died in large numbers to Armenian rebel armies and Armenian volunteers in the hundreds of thousands in the Russian Army and French Legion.

If large death tolls of Armenians equaled genocide... Then the deaths of large numbers of Native Americans also mean genocide. Then the large numbers of African-Americans dying to lynch mobs and slavery are also a genocide. Then the large numbers of Azeris killed by Armenian Armed Forces in 1992-1994, is also genocide. Then the large numbers of Talibans killed in Afghanistan is also genocide.


armenian genocide denial

you must be crazy by saying the Armenian Genocide didn't happen. There are primary sources saying that it did happen. Saying that it didn't happen is like denying the Holocaust. If we don't realize it, it will happen again

You cannot witness a genocide, only massacres.

The primary sources you talk about describe massacres, killings, starvation, and disease. Primary sources talk about how they witness death and suffering, which was happening to almost every ethnicity during World War I. However, only forgeries have been offered by Armenian historians to prove that the government intended to exterminate Armenians. The problem is, there is too much evidence and telegrams showing the compassion that Talat Pasha and other members of the CUP Government of 1915 showed to the Christian and especially Armenian populations.

The CUP government made some terrible decisions like the Armenian deportations, but it wasn't intended to kill Armenians, only relocate them from a war zone where Armenian Rebels (Dashnaks and Hunchaks) who had also captured the city of Van were aiding the Russian Invasion (who arrived in Van, Turkey-- May, 1915) and damaging the Ottoman war front.

The Holocaust, if you had actually read the article, was proven by witnesses because they had found physical evidence of state funded and built gas chambers, ovens with human remains, and most importantly Nazi archival evidence and physical evidence of meetings on how they planned and determined to exterminate the Jews. No such evidence exists for the Ottomans in 1915, only a lot of massacres committed by local people due to tensions between Muslims and Christians with the Armenian Rebels being the catalyst to the eventual exile of the Armenian community.

So, please know the difference between genocide and massacres, and understand that you need physical evidence of government intent or solid evidence of intent using archives to prove a genocide. You cannot simply accuse an empire of genocide without sufficient evidence.


Added Two Quotes from professor of history

I added two quotes about the Hitler Quote to the top, read them and understand that talking about the Armenian-referencing Hitler Quote, is false and will only ruin your credibility.

do you really believe waht you are saying?

why armenians and their diaspora refuse to listen when one not agree with them?
there was no armenian genocide , but there was a civil war, which backstabber armenians strarted when they sided with Russia. just because you lost the civil war, dont call it a holocaust. remember there are many turkish civilians killed by armenian gangs. there are documents and eyewitness accounts.
do you really believe those tgurkish civilians died at the same time?
when "so called" genocide happened, there were many Armenian officials, bureucrats in the Ottoman government. they were alive and were still serving in the government.
why Ottoman gov't did not kill them, if there was a genocide.
this and many points.
get a life, stop lying. we know what you are up to