"Macreau" : Exposing The Armenian Trouble Maker: Bulanikian (BULANIK KAFALIYAN)

Here's some selection of gems from the Notorious "Macreau" or Serj Bulanikian (BULANIK KAFALIYAN):


Macreau is disenchanted with himself. The more you get him to write the more he gets himself tangled up in his own delusions. An example is, he said there was no other word for baba ( father ) in the Turkish language. But, when I pointed it out that ata is the Turkish equivalent of father in the Turkish language, Macreau out of humiliation lost all sense of reality. He became impotent and was even unable to check neutral references like hazar.com, where it states that ata is father. This man is incapable of logical thought and is only good at being an attack dog. He has attacked Mr. Arabaliozian, for not being in par with his ( Macrau ) racist and ultra nationalistic views ( though it is ironic that Macreau does not reside in Armenia ). He has attacked Jokermaydance ( JTV ) for being Jewish and called him an ass licker. JTV's only crime was posting an article about the Holocaust. How can this man ( which I am ashamed of even considering him a part of the human race ) be taken seriously.

He is a Hitler in disguise. His only purpose is to kill Turks, and since he is impotent to do that, he takes his rage out of people here. My only quarrel with him is, I got sick and tired of his Hitleric ways. It is because of waste-less life like this ( Macreau ) that Turks and Armenians have disputes. If radicals like him get routed up and demarginalized , more Turks like me will take Armenian claims seriously. As long as vermin like him exist, the more I will become radicalized. Believe it or not, I have no issues with Armenians. Just wannabe Adolfs like Macreau.

Re: The ABC of OWNING Macreau

Macreau, you are a familiar type among us (Armenians) and you are just a smart-ass know-it-all racist who pretends to be a patriot.

I wouldn't think any any other logical thinking Armenian disagrees with that.

As for barbarosari, people like him will be a good medicine for you,

believe you me. I don't care if he is Turkish or not?

if not him, perhaps an Armenian will kick you someday real soon

--- In TURKISHARMENIANFRIENDSHIP@yahoogroups.com, Macreau@... wrote:
In a message dated 3/2/2008 4:15:07 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
setrak.ashjian@... writes:

Macreau has even insulted Ara Baliozian many many times.

He is just a cyber thug.

Other than being generating some content here(maybe that's why he is allowed to mess around here) ,

he is just useless forum member.

I suggest we ignore him please

This is not the first time that an Armenian is buttering up a
Turkish pion.

Setrak have you ever expressed an opinion in this medium?
Do you know what constitutes an insult ?

Yes. Indeed . I have criticized ARA many times on some of his point of views but "INSULT"? SETRAK...why don't you show me where I have insulted ARA?? The proof is in the pudding. Instead of mud slinging why don't you prove your statement.

Obviously you do not know the gist of my argument with your buddy Barbar and you will never understand it if you do not know Turkish. Why don't you read my lines carefully and digest it......as your mud slinging...well if you rub elbow with the likes of Barbar you are bound to adopt his shortcomings..

What has gotten into you? You ruminate without cause. As I said when you accuse somebody you have to be ready to prove it. I asked you simple questions and you could come up only with what you wrote above .I have never , never pretended to be anything else than somebody who raises questions about some statements made in this medium.As for logical thinking

Armenian..well...according to ARA , they are a rarity...

The fact that you think Barbar is a good medicine for the likes of me...here is the proof that you are out of your league. Obviously you have not understood what I am writing about..You could only understand if you knew Turkish and the use a certain word in the Turkish lexicon.

Having said that , why don't you post something , express an opinion about an statement rather than harping on somebody without knowing what is going on?

From: Macreau@aol.com ..serj.bulanikian


Edward Tashjyi bu kadar pofloflamanin sebebi Turk tezini korudugundan dir. Bos lafla peynir gemisi yurumez.

Bu kadar tarihcinin kabul ettigi 1915 jenosidini Tashji mi red etmis? Kim bu Tashji? Ermeni bile degil, babasi Suryani, annesinin ne oldugunu bilmem..eh ..Ermeni olsun. Peki bu adamin husniyeti ne? Lakabi ne? Her hangi bir univesite ile alakasi var mi idi? Bu sahsin her hangi akademik bir sifati var mi? Kac tane etud, monograf, kitap yazmis? Hangi yuksek ogretim muessesine bagli idi?

CEVAP : SIFIR.....hic birine bagli degildi..Fakat sizleri iyi cengellemis...ben Ermeniyim demis ve sizinle hemfikir demis ve sizleri iyice suzmus......
Tashjinin Ermenilikle tek alakasi sizin tezinizi poh poh etmesinden baska hic bir baglantisi yok.

Sayet aranizda Tashjini akademik gecmisini bilen varsa bildirsin..Hodri Meydan...Sam burada ise arsin da burada.....

Anamadigim tek sey su : Turkler arasinda bu kadar okumus, zeki sahislar oldugu halde arada bir ortaya boye sacma kisiler sokuyorsunuz . Bundan bir ara evvel de Arlansas barosundan def edilmis, musterilerin parasini yemis bir kadi , sonra da avukat Samel Weems birden ortaya cikti...baktik ki...sizlerin parasi ile gene sizlerin borazanini otturuyor....Vaz gecin...ama ata sozu.....denize dusen yilana sarilir.....sizler de Tashji, Weems gibilerinden umit bekliyorsunuz..

Evet cevap bekliyoruz: Tashji nin akademik gecmisi ne?

From: Macreau@aol.com ..serj.bulanikian


In order to justify the genocide of some 1,5 million Armenians during 1915-1918 , Turkish authorities and historians have repeatedly insisted over the last 96 years that, if a few thousand Armenians died due to deportations from strategic military zones in Turkey, the number of Turks who lost their lives due to ??? Armenian Atrocities??? during the same period was between 1,5 million ( Djemal Pash, War Memories) to 3 million ( East Uras,Tarihte Ermeniler ve Ermeni meselesi)

In order to place Turkey???s human losses in proper perspective, it would beuseful to examine the number of casualties suffered by the fighting nations during the war.
According to US Governmental figures total casualties among all belligerent nations during Wwi were 8,538,315 military personnel killed and 7,750,919 missing or imprisoned. It is believed that the latter figure, from 25 % to 50% might be considered as having been killed. Thus roughly, ten million military personnel of all nations were killed. In aditiondeaths among the civilian population caused indirectly by war have been estimated to be 10-12 millions. In WWI , then , one civilian lost his life for each soldier killed.

Again according to US Governmental statistics, in WWI , Turkey mobilized 2,850,000 men . ( Turkish historians say that there were only 1,5 million men)Of these 325,00 were killed, and 250,000 were made prisoners or were missing in action. No figures are given for civilian casualties.

Official Turkish Government figures for Turkish casualties are as follow:

Number of Soldiers killed, excepting the Dardanelles operation....68,378
Number of soldiers killed in the Dardanelles operation.....55,127
Missing in Dardanelles.....10,067
Total combat dead and all missing...133,574
Number of soldiers dead of illness......455,759
Number of Soldiers dead of illness at the Dardanelles..... .21,498

Thus, for each Turkish soldier killed in action, four others died of illness, mostly in epidemics of typhus, typhoid, dysentery, malnutrition and frost-bite and gangrene due to inadequate clothing and poor military leadership.

Now then, what about the number of Turkish civilians who died during the same time? No figures on this matter have been issued by the Turkish authorities and probably no such figures are available. There is little doubt that many Turkish or Moslem civilians died during the war due to epidemic and malnutrition, mentioned above. Considering the condition of the average Turkish soldier, who was supposed to have preference over the civilian in the matter of the availability of the sinews of life during the period of warfare, there is a good possibility that the loss of life among Turkish civilians was at least one-and one-half million. Thus , for each soldier killed in combat, four other soldiers and about 15 civilians died of illness. However, as shown above, and crucially, it is absolutely unfounded that these civilians were killed mainly by Armenians.

The Western, or ???Turkish??? Armenians were deported and largely killed between 1915-1916, and Russian Armenian soldiers in the Russian Tsarist armies were largely sent to other fronts elsewhere in the Russian Empire, until the Russian Revolution of 1917

The actual and direct cause of the terrible Turkish loss of life from ilness, among soldiers and civilians alike , was the Union and Progress Party, the Ittihad, under the autocratic rule of the Talaat-, Djemal.- Enver triumvirate.

The German General Liman von Sanders, who became the Inspector-General of the Ottoman ariems in January 1914 found Turkish troops in wretched state. Officers had not received salaeries for 6-8 months, while their soldiers had not been paid for years, were undernourished, their uniforms and personal equipment in rags,

Alarming conditions existed in military installations and hospitals; there were vermin, filth, overcrowding; often two soldiers occupied one bed; a large number soldiers died daily; sometimes, the wards holding ill Turkish soldiers were locked, and Turkish physicians would swear that keys to these chambers were lost...When von Sanders refused to accept this excuse and insisted on having wards open to him, he found that these locked rooms were filled with seriously ill or dying soldiers.

It was under these conditions that Turkey entered the war. Professor Ahmet Emin states in his work :

-- The Turkish soldier....His neverchanging diet consisted of food both uneatable and not even suitable for bodily upkeep. He was not protected from heat or cold, nor from sickness....The Turkish soldier could never be without the thought that his family had no means of livelihood....At the beginning of 1917, desertions had reached the number of 300,000. By the summer of 1918 the figure had reached to more than 500,000.. Deserters could not go back to their villages....Capital punishment awaited them the moment they were caught..--

This means of course that to be a Turkish soldier was worse than dying under military court edict. If this then were the condition of the Turkish soldier, one needs not strech one???s imagination to perceive what was the condition of the average civilian population.

In a confidential report, Mustafa Kemal Pasha ( Futur Ataturk) in September 1917 , addressed this report to Enver, the Minister of War :

-- There are no bonds left between the Government and the people. What we call the people are composed now of women, disabled men and children. For all alike the Government is the power which insistently drives them to hunger and death. The administrative machinery is devoid of authority. Public life is in full anrachy. Every new step taken by the Government increases the general hatered the people feel for it....The best orginized divisions lose half their numbers by desertion or sickness before they reach the front.--

Kemal???s report leaves no doubt who were the real murderers of the Turkish civilian population.

From: Macreau@aol.com ..serj.bulanikian
Re: [TURKISHARMENIANFRIENDSHIP] The Armenian Revolt: 1894-1920 (Documentary)

Asagida uzman tarihci olarak gosterdigi tarihcilerin hepsi bilaiistisna Turk tezini tutanlardir. Bu sahislar dunya soykirim uzmanlari tarafindan kritik edilmis ve gecmisi tahrif ettiklerinden ciddiye alinmamistir. Bu tarihciler Turk hukumeti ile olan bagliliklari dolayisiile acaba ne kadar ciddiye alinabilir/
Sanford Shaw----karisi Turk, acaba onun etkisi altinda olabilir mi?
Justin Mc Carthy...Turkyede calismis, Turk hukumetinden bir cok oduller almis vs.vs...acaba ne kadar objektif?
Norman Stone...aynisi
Oburleri ise gene Turk hukumetinden ekmek yiyorlar....

From: Macreau@aol.com ..serj.bulanikian


There is nothing new under the Turkish sun. Not only Mr. Kirlikovali fabricates story he also denies what 126 genocide scholars have found the blood on Turkish hands. These world renowned scholars have succinctly exposed Turkish malfeasance ..and ...yet here we have Ergun Bey spinning the same denialist yarn.

What is amazing is that despite all facts, proofs etc.etc....he and his likes refuse to see the truth....This is what a Devekusu ( ostrich) does....stick its head in sand....

From: Macreau@aol.com ..serj.bulanikian

The real Aaturk hidden from Turks

In all probability, the material which Wikileaks has on Ataturk pertain to the secret side of his private life. That there is much documented in this regard is a fact. I have myself read many reports by diplomats about Ataturk dating from the 1920s and '30s which would be worthy of publication in Playboy or Instinct. I must emphasise the fact that the details of the private lives of public figures are, for that reason, not private at all in their essence. What is private sensibly conditions human thought, which, in turn, is the basis for making decisions, decisions upon which thousands of human lives and historical eras depend. The factor of the private for politicians is always a matter of import for societies in general and ends up having wide-ranging influence.

As a result, a political figure does not and cannot have a private life. The lifestyle of a politician is a voluntary choice, which each individual consciously carries out. One's sexuality is one of the most important aspects of one's private life, and so, one's sexual practices can reveal a great deal and provide significant information on a person's internal state and thinking.

The first bit of information by Armstrong on Mustafa's initial sexual life and orientation takes place in his second year, in 1894, at the Military Cadet School at Salonika (Thessaloniki). It is here that Mustafa's mathematics teacher who shared his name, one Captain Mustafa, took the 13-14 year old adolescent "under his wing": "In his second year one of the masters, a Capitan Mustafa, took a fancy to him". The use of the phrase "to take a fancy" is an interesting move by Armstrong. That expression may have a number of meanings -to like, to be taken by, to be attracted to, to feel attached to, especially in sexual way. Also, it is this very Captain Mustafa who bestowed the title "Kemal" - "perfect", "beautiful" - to the young, blue-eyed Mustafa.

Armstrong elaborates on what he means in the following passage: "The friendship and protection of Captain Mustafa did him no good. The friendship was unhealthy. He developed overrapidly. Before he was fourteen he had passed the boy stage: the gropings after sex: the petty dirtiness: and he had started an affair with a neighbor's daughter".

In order to continue his education, Mustafa Kemal transferred from Salonika at first to Monastir in 1895, and then to Constantinople in 1899. The young Mustafa Kemal dove headlong into the nightlife of the big city:

"At once he plunged wildly into the unclean life of the great metropolis of Constantinople. Night after night he gambled and drank in the cafes and restaurants. With women he was not fastidious. A figure, a face in profile, a laugh, could set him on fire and reaching out to get the woman, whatever she was. Sometimes it would be with the Greek and Armenian harlots in the bawdy-houses in the garbage-stinking streets by Galata Bridge, where came the pimps and the homosexuals to cater for all the vices; then for a week or two a Levantine lady in her house in Pangaldi; or some Turkish girl who came veiled and by back-ways in fear of the police to some maison de rendez-vous in Pera or Stambul.

He fell in love with none of them. He was never sentimental or romantic. Without a pang of conscience he passed rapidly from one to next. He satisfied his appetite and was gone. He was completely Oriental in his mentality: women had no place in his life except to satisfy his sex. He plunged deep down into the lecherous life of the city."

Armstrong's next bit of information on the private life of Mustafa Kemal refers to that time period when he was the military attache of the Ottoman Empire in Sofia (27 October, 1913 to 2 February, 1915): "He learnt ball-room dancing, methodically with a teacher, and then danced whenever possible, but always as if he was on parade. He frequented the drawing-rooms and tried to become the society gallant, making love to the ladies of Sofia, but they found him excessively gauche."

Mustafa Kemal fell in love in Sofia with Dimitrina, the daughter of General Stiliyan Kovachev, the former defence minister of Bulgaria.

However, he was rejected by her, "And Mustafa Kemal, touchy and sensitive, became more lofty and aloof than ever. He began to hate society".

Avoiding high society, Mustafa Kemal was drawn more and more towards other circles.

"With men - and especially men who were deferential - and with the loose women of the capital, Mustafa Kemal was far more at ease. With these, in the cafes and the brothels, he drank and reveled night after night far into the dawn. He gambled and diced for hours against any one who would sit against him. He heaped up all the indulgences and glutted himself with them. He tried all the vices. He paid the penalty in sex disease and damaged health. In the reaction he lost all belief in women and for the time being became enamored of his own sex."

The First World War began in 1914. On the 28th of October, 1914, Turkish battleships perfidiously bombed the Russian ports of the Black Sea, due to which war was declared on Turkey by Russia on the 3rd of November, followed by France and Britain on the 5th of November.

Turkey was facing war on two fronts.

Little is known in general about the private life of Mustafa Kemal in the war years, and Armstrong does not convey much either, for his part. One thing is evident, that alcohol deteriorated his health to such a degree that he was forced to leave for Carlsbad (Karlovy Vary, in the Czech Republic today) for treatment from April to August, 1918, during the most heated time of the war. As Armstrong relates, he was seen by the celebrated Austrian physician, Otto Zuckerkandl, who warned him, that "If he did not stop drinking he would die in a year".

It must be emphasised that the Austrian doctor was wrong; although Mustafa Kemal continued to drink no less than what he used to, he lived for twenty more years nonetheless, until 1938.

After the defeat of the Ottoman Empire and the signing of the Treaty of Moudros (on the 30th of October, 1918), Mustafa Kemal returned to Constantinople from the Syrian front. Despite his many efforts, Kemal did not receive any offices in the new government. What is more, in staying unemployed, he rented a small house in the ?i?li district of Constantinople and gave himself to the pleasures of life. His only friend in that period was one Colonel Arif:

"He had few friends and only one intimate, a Colonel Arif. Arif was a capable staff officer trained in Germany. He was a younger man than Mustafa Kemal. They had known each other since the days in Salonika and Monastir; they had served together in Syria, the Balkans and Gallipoli. After the Armistice they struck up a close friendship. They had common tastes; both were absorbed in all military matters; both enjoyed the same loose talk, the heavy drinking and the wild nights with women. Mustafa Kemal's enemies said they were lovers, for Arif was the only person for whom Mustafa showed open affection, putting his arm round his shoulders and calling him endearing names."

Mustafa Kemal kept his daring and indiscriminate sexual life in future years. Armstrong writes the following on Ataturk's private life during the years 1921-1922:

"As long as there was work, it absorbed Mustafa Kemal's every minute: nothing could divert him. When work slackened, he grew irritable and restless and began to interfere with his subordinates. It was then that with Arif and one or two other men he would disappear on heavy drinking bouts which, with gambling, would last whole nights; or he went a whoring with the painted women of the poor brothels of the town."

Naturally, such a lifestyle had its negative effects on Mustafa Kemal's health. A doctor advised him to "work and drink less, and lead a regular life with someone to look after him". It was at that time that Fikriye Hanum came into his life: "From a break-down he was saved by Fikriye Hanum. She was a distant relative of his from Stambul who had volunteered as an army nurse and come to Angora. As soon as he saw her, Mustafa Kemal took her to his house."

Armstrong is mistaken here. Fikriye (1887-1924) was not a distant relative of Mustafa, but his own first cousin (his mother's brother's daughter), in whose house Mustafa lived for two years during his childhood. Fikriye had been married to a rich Egyptian Arab, but had long since been separated.

"She watched over all his needs. When he was ill, she nursed him. She was his mistress and his absolute slave, for she was Turkish and oriental.(...) For a while Mustafa Kemal was absorbed in her. But very soon he tired. He went back more and more to his painted women, his drinking companions and his cards."

The life of Mustafa Kemal during the period 1922-1924 is reminiscent of a classic love triangle. In September, 1922, Mustafa Kemal met Latife U?akl?gil (1898-1975). The meeting changed his life for a while. Fikriye was suddenly rendered superfluous, a burden. Kemal had her sent to Munich "for treatment" in 1922. On the 14th of January, 1923, the only close person to Mustafa Kemal, his mother Zubeyde, died. Barely fifteen days after her death, Kemal married Latife, with whom he lived for two and a half years. In 1924, Fikriye returned from Munich, met with Mustafa Kemal and tried to discuss what was to become of her. The next day, Fikriye was found dead in a ditch behind Mustafa Kemal's house. The theory that she committed suicide is heavily questioned to this day.

From: Macreau@aol.com ..serj.bulanikian


There is no such word as " ALLIAS"
There is no such verb as " QUESS"
Bu mu Amerikadaki Turk toplumunu temsil eden??? Baskaniniz Doktor, professor vs. gibi lakiplari olan bir kimse dogru durust ingilizce bile yazamiyor.....

In a message dated 12/3/2010 10:33:50 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Kayaalp Buyukataman@... writes:





From: Macreau@aol.com ..serj.bulanikian

Re: [TURKISHARMENIANFRIENDSHIP] more about our big brothers and us

This question reminds me Turkish reasoning...Well... they were not 1,5 million , only 800,000. As if quantity changes the perception.....

In a message dated 12/2/2010 2:02:04 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, arabaliozian@... writes:

300,000 armenians died during world war ii alone.
many thousands more were killed during and after the Revolution that sovietized armenia.
many more died during waves of purges.
i doubt if ten turkish bombs would have done that kind of damage. / ara baliozian

From: Macreau@aol.com ..serj.bulanikian
Re: [TURKISHARMENIANFRIENDSHIP] Mata Hari . . Role of Truth . . Media Relati...

I love this paragraph.......how insane some people could be......

In a message dated 11/28/2010 1:09:31 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, newsrush@... writes:

3) That is right the Armenian Ottoman population was not subjected to a campaign of extermination (i.e. genocide), but several certified Armenian traitors were sentenced to death and hanged by Ottoman authorities, a decision perfectly understandable in World War I???s time.

From: Macreau@aol.com ..serj.bulanikian


You are so wrong. When talking about Americanization or Ottomanization you should consider the premis. America being Christian ( whatevet that means), with all the freedoms and without any pressure it is easy to become Americanized.

What about Ottomans...OK if the genocide is small fraction of total damage what are other damages? Now.if you answer it should cover ONLY but ONLY "loss of national identity" nothing else.

In a message dated 11/18/2010 9:38:14 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, arabaliozian@... writes:

It takes less than 25 years (or a single generation)
to Americanize an Armenian.
Now imagine what 600 years (or 24 generations)
in the Ottoman Empire may have done to us!
What if the Genocide is only a small fraction of the total damage?

From: Macreau@aol.com ..serj.bulanikian

You are so wrong. When talking about Americanization or Ottomanization you should consider the premis. America being Christian ( whatevet that means), with all the freedoms and without any pressure it is easy to become Americanized.

What about Ottomans...OK if the genocide is small fraction of total damage what are other damages? Now.if you answer it should cover ONLY but ONLY "loss of national identity" nothing else.

In a message dated 11/18/2010 9:38:14 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, arabaliozian@... writes:

It takes less than 25 years (or a single generation)
to Americanize an Armenian.
Now imagine what 600 years (or 24 generations)
in the Ottoman Empire may have done to us!
What if the Genocide is only a small fraction of the total damage?

From: Macreau@aol.com ..serj.bulanikian
Re: [TURKISHARMENIANFRIENDSHIP] Koran,Sharia,,,101. (Kayaalp Buyukataman)

Spending pleasurable nights in the Turkish army is more to your liking my friend. Your disgusting innuendos neither diminishes nor can deny facts of history.
In a message dated 10/9/2010 8:34:47 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Kayaalp Buyukataman@... writes:

An expected answer

What do you expect from a jew who appears to like Armenians

But in reality his pain is resurfaces when he thinks the pleasurable nights he spend while serving in the turkish army J

From: Macreau@aol.com ..serj.bulanikian

Himmm.......a Ohiao congresswoman who has been bought by Turks....so...what's new about that?

In a message dated 10/5/2010 6:50:45 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Kayaalp Buyukataman@... writes:

From: Dr. Kayaalp Buyukataman [mailto:kaya2012@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:20 PM
To: Dr. Kayaalp Buyukataman

Five years after stepping aside as chairman of Chelmsford???s Hittite Microwave Corp., Yalcin Ayasli has pumped tens of million of dollars into Turkish causes, even finding himself in the middle of the debate over whether the killing of 1.5 million Armenians during the Ottoman Empire was genocide.

Ayasli???s spending largely has escaped notice. Even some of the beneficiaries of his money, such as an Ohio congresswoman, say they don???t know who he is.

From: Macreau@aol.com ..serj.bulanikian
Re: [TURKISHARMENIANFRIENDSHIP] Vahe Avetian: I'm Honored By "Abi" Title By ...

What is the purpose of this article? Is it to knock down ARF.? I am not a Tashnak but there is no doubt that ARF has done many good deeds.
The only thing I agree that individual Turks are very friendly and hospitable. Forget the masses, Turkish government has washed their .

Vahe does not know the meaning of "ABI"..it is not a title..It is the abbreviation of Aga Bey which young boys call their elder brothers. It means big brother and most youngsters call elders "aga bey " OR "ABI"....It is not honorary title like Vahe claims....thus, he does not know what he is talking about.

In a message dated 9/21/2010 6:09:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, newsrush@... writes:

Vahe Avetian: I am honored by the title "abi" daily by the Turkish kids and youngsters of the neighborhood, and believe me, it is not a word with which they honor many. I can definitely tell today that my personal experience with Turks is very different from the "official line" and the brainwashing about Turks by the Armenian state, academicians, Diaspora, parents, grandparents, all kinds of authorities and priesthood....

From: Macreau@aol.com ..serj.bulanikian
Re: [TURKISHARMENIANFRIENDSHIP] Ari Sivacyan and Ara Baliozian...

One who sees always worst in us and the other one is ashamed of being Armenian. A Turkish proverb is very appropriate in this case. Those who know Turkish would understand.

In a message dated 7/31/2010 10:35:27 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, arabaliozian@... writes:

Ari Sivacyan commented on your note "thank you":

"Productive human beings like Ara Baliozian who contribute to Armenian culture, work for less than minimum wage for scumbag Armenians (Armenian government, mafia, church, and business "leaders") who send our women to prostitute themselves in the brothels of Turkey -- when not tying to assassinate heroes like Monte Melkonian because they wanted to sell for profit the fuel that he needed to put in his tanks in order to defend Armenians.... That's what Armenians amount to, today. I'm ashamed to be an Armenian TODAY."

Read More . . .

What Was The Hitler's Quote

Hitler's Armenian Genocide Quote is a paragraph from Hitler's alleged second speech to his Wehrmacht commanders, a week before the invasion of Poland in August 22, 1939. Since it's first appearance, the quote has been used by Armenian activists as just another reason to believe in the Armenian Genocide.

The quote, though has many similar translations is as follows:

Our strength is our quickness and our brutality. Genghis Khan had millions of women and children hunted down and killed, deliberately and with a gay heart. History sees in him only the great founder of States. What the weak Western European civilization alleges about me, does not matter. I have given the order—and will have everyone shot who utters but one word of criticism—that the aim of this war does not consist in reaching certain geographical lines, but in the enemies' physical elimination. Thus, for the time being only in the east, I put ready my Death's Head units, with the order to kill without pity or mercy all men, women, and children of the Polish race or language. Only thus will we gain the living space that we need. Who still talks nowadays of the extermination of the Armenians?
The important part is the last sentence that Armenian activists seem to point as evidence for the genocide.

The Argument behind the quote

The goal here is to convince you that Hitler justified the Holocaust and extermination of Jews because no one cared about the genocide of the Armenians.

The argument they use with this quote, is a logical fallacy. If you don't punish the Turks for the Armenian Genocide, some crazy dictator like Hitler will see them get away with it, and thus will commit genocide himself. It's an appeal to emotion. It assumes that crazy people need rational justification or only do something evil because they saw someone else get away with it (like a child may steal a cookie from the jar because he saw dad do it).

Lack of Evidence suggests the Speech is False

Dr. Heath Lowry wrote after looking through the Nuremberg trials for proof of this quote:

Dr. Heath Lowry wrote:
The address was never accepted as evidence in this or any other session of the Nuremberg Tribunal.

There was an attempt to have the quote inserted into the Nuremberg Trials, but the tribunal rejected it because it was a incoherent merger of two Hitler speeches acquired from questionable sources.

Nuremberg trial officials located the true speeches of Hitler during this time and admitted it into evidence. None of them mention Armenians.
Motivation for Fabricating this Evidence

It doesn't take a genius to realize that since everyone equates Hitler and Nazi Germany with pure evil, tying your enemy to them, makes it very easy to force others to sympathize with you and to appeal to their emotions.

Since the popularity of this quote amongst the Armenian community, they have been using it to acquire more sympathy especially among Jewish communities. They have used it to involve themselves more in Holocaust studies and they try hard to relate them to each other.

The mere thought of equating the horrific suffering of Jews to the failed rebellion of the Armenians should enrage any Jewish person. The Jews never rebelled against the Nazis, they were singled out in Germany society and were forced to wear identifying Jewish badges in order to promote antisemitism by law.

They were forced to live in ghettos. None of this happened to Armenians. There were many Armenians in leadership positions within the Ottoman government during the reign of the supposed "genocide perpetrators".

Even if we were to assume the speech is absolutely true

If we were to assume the speech is authentic and not question it, the wording of the speech is irrational. The last sentence doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the speech, it's as if, out of the blue, Hitler decides to talk about the plight of the Armenians.

The Speech was about Poland NOT the Holocaust

The speech was talking about the annihilation of the Polish people not the Jews. The Final Solution and the Wannsee Conference that established it, had not yet happened. The Polish people were indeed terrorized by the Nazis during the war, but they weren't exterminated "men, women, and children". Did Hitler's commanders ignore Hitler's command by not exterminating all Poles?

Hitler had to justify genocide to his own commanders?

The speech seems very far-fetched, why would the Fuhrer need to justify to his fascist subordinates about killing anyone by justifying it with past events? Why would he compare himself to the barbarian Genghis Khan?

If he is prepared to shoot anyone who utters "one word of criticism", why did he feel the need to justify killings by referencing Armenians?

Why is the Hitler quote being used as proof of genocide?

How is the word of one crazy dictator somehow evidence? This is like saying "this book says 2+4 = 263 is true, therefore, it must be true." If Hitler had a friend who kept telling him stories about the extermination of Armenians, does that mean Armenians actually faced extermination? Was Hitler a historian? The premise of the argument is that it is assumed the genocide is true when that has yet to be proven.

Everyday however, Armenians mention this quote as if it is absolute proof that the genocide was real and that others are using it to justify more genocide.

People are reluctant to question every detail, so fabricating new evidence may be discredited by historians but it if it is repeated enough times, even educated people will believe it to be true. Conspiracy theorists use this technique to flood the victim with false facts and false evidence in an effort to wear you down and make you believe.

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Turkish Government Denial and Payroll

Armenians claim that the Ottoman Empire committed genocide to the Armenian people, they called it the Armenian Genocide. Decades ago, Turkish historians are able to talk to villagers in Turkey and research historical archives of the Ottoman Empire, investigate these genocide claims and conclude that the Young Turk Ottoman government did not plan any genocide. . .

At first, many decades ago, during the 1940s and 1950s, the claim of Armenian Genocide was not widely dispersed. When Armenians saw the reparations being rightfully paid by Germany to the Jews for the Holocaust, they strengthened their claims of the Armenian Genocide and started pressuring other governments to recognize this genocide.

Once it became political and Turkish historians increasingly found more evidence of Armenian massacres and rebellions, the Turkish government decided to deny this alleged genocide because of lack of evidence and because they are the ones with access to the Ottoman archives.

Thus, Armenians began to claim, that since they deny the genocide, then they must have committed the genocide because all perpetrators of genocide deny their genocide.

In essence, if person A claims you're a murderer, and you deny that you murdered anyone. Person A then claims that all murderers deny murders, hence you are truly a murderer. This is a logical fallacy called Begging the Question or circular argument.

To top it off, the Turkish government seeing that Armenians are continuing to convince the world without any evidence, decided it was time to allow all world historians to come to the Ottoman archives in Istanbul and learn the history of previous Ottoman governments. Every year more and more historians come out with new books on the subject, rejecting the idea that this was a genocide.

As a result of the Turkish government's involvement in the debate, Armenians have started a habit of calling anyone who hints at looking for evidence for the Armenian Genocide as "on the Turkish government's payroll". They have used it against every single author that has suggested that the Armenian Genocide does not qualify as genocide as declared by the United Nations.

In fact, even writers for this website have been attacked as being paid by the Turkish government. If this website or any of its writers or researchers were paid by the Turkish government, then wouldn't we have advertisement all over the web trying to convince you? Yet we don't have a single ad. We post articles and our research because we are historians and we believe this subject is an important part of history.

If Armenians make this claim, then cannot Turks make the claim that they are being funded by the Armenian Revolutionary Federation or the Armenian government?

In fact, the Armenian Revolutionary Federation, has an office in Boston! What is a 100 year old terrorist organization doing in the United States? (This is equivalent to Al Qaeda having an office in NATO nation). The ARF is working to use US taxpayer money to send billions of dollars of aid to Armenia and to stop aid to country's Armenia hates, such as Azerbaijan and Georgia.

What does Armenia do with more than 2 billion dollars of US taxpayer money over the last few decades? Allow Russia to build more Russian airbases, military bases, and batteries inside Armenia and make more trade deals with Iran (their only friendly neighbor). At least the Russians are getting their money's worth.

As Americans, we dreamed our tax payer money would be used on Americans or at least on allied nations in their times of need that we know would support us when the time comes. Instead we are funding Armenia's war and propaganda machine.

In 1992, Armenia launched an unprovoked sneak attack against Azerbaijan (a neighbor and a US ally). Wealthy Armenian lobbyists campaigned and the US Congress cut aid to Azerbaijan and increased aid to the aggressor: Armenia.

Instead of assuming--that just because the Turkish government elected by its people, and for decades (with completely contradicting political parties in power over the years) denying this genocide--is lying or guilty; we should do some research.

Perhaps it's time we focus our attention to Armenia, a country that keeps its historical archives locked from even their own historians--or how about the Armenian Revolutionary Federation, an organization established to destroy the Ottoman Empire that has offices today in Boston, with its own ARF historical archives also locked.

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Are Armenians Full of Contradictions ?

Are Armenians  Full of Contradictions Armenians are a proud people, and if you aren't Turkish and you don't deny their unproven genocide, they are also a very friendly people. I've met many Armenians over the years, since I am American, they are extremely friendly to me, and for that reason, I do not discuss this topic with them. That is of course, until they google my name and read some of my articles that disagree with the notion of an Armenian Genocide. After which, they will either disassociate themselves with me, or they will come by and either try to convince me or argue with me. I'm sure many of you, no matter where you are from, have encountered Armenians who try to convince you of the genocide.

The reason they try to convince you, is because of their nationalism, this is not a negative trait, it's just the way they were raised and they are proud of working together with other Armenians to convince the world of their genocide. This is how the Armenian Revolutionary Federation saves its face, otherwise they would have to finally admit after 94 years, that they indeed lost World War I to the Central Power, Ottoman forces. They would have to admit that the Allies really did betray them and left them without reinforcements and all their efforts to sabotage the Ottoman war effort would be gone. The Russian and British promise of a Greater Armenia was broken, they were left with a tiny country and they had no economy and many refugees that were starving in their land-locked nation.

Due to human nature, they had to find someone to blame. They tried to blame the Russians and the rest of the Allies, but it didn't help, no one listened, no one cared. However, when the ARF decided to blame the Ottoman Turks, enemies of the Turks, joined in the blame game, because they all had grudges against the Turks. The British had lost 2 significant battles to the Turks, and they lost the Turkish Independence war, giving the new nation Turkey its own land. The Greeks had lost all of Western Anatolia to the Turks during this war. The French lost all of South-Eastern Anatolia to the Turks. The Russians were creating the Soviet Empire and they were no longer interested in Anatolia, but they too felt betrayed by the Turks who accepted their gifts of weapons but did not convert to communism. Although the Allies had won World War I, in the Turkish independence war, they had lost, and they did not like the Turks.

The Armenian Genocide concept, started after this Turkish independence war. It didn't gain traction until the 1950s and 1960s through widespread propaganda by Armenian communities around the world. This is why the founder of Turkey, Ataturk, has never made any comments about the Armenian Genocide or the accusation of any genocide, because such accusations did not exist when he was alive.

Two Armenians in different times tried to convince me of the genocide. One of them, talked about how his grandmother's husband and children were killed. However, said that she was forced to walk all the way to Syria. As a skeptic, I asked why anyone would kill a family, and then let one of them escape scratch free to Syria, which he could not answer (the reason being, the story was fabricated). When I asked him why then there is no evidence that Talat Pasha, one of the leaders of the Ottoman Empire, had no telegrams ordering genocide, he replied "Why would Talat Pasha leave evidence of his own crimes?"

Another Armenian, tried to convince me by telling me how Talat Pasha wrote a "Black Book" (funny), detailing how he committed the genocide and references "Ottoman documents, not allowed to be seen in the Ottoman Archives today." That was funny because the previous Armenian was telling me Talat Pasha left no evidence of his crime and now he's written a whole black book detailing his crimes, very interesting, very improbable.

When I asked where I can have a copy of this black book, he could not produce it, said that it was sold in various places in different countries. Later, I found out, that he apparently, learned about this black book from some Armenian forum. Again, rumors.

This was similar to the one time where I read a Reader's Digest article hilariously entitled "Why I hate the Turks" -- The Armenian that wrote it, discussed how this very old Armenian described a story of how, he and his family and all of his fellow villagers were trapped in a church, and the "evil Turks" used wood to cover up the windows, and then poured kerosene everywhere and lit the church on fire. He told about how he cried with his family and told them they'd be together again in heaven. Then the story cut off--- huh?? -- How did he escape then? Apparently, that miraculous detail was classified. My suspicion is that he was an ARF member who was the one burning Muslim families in a Mosque, and just twisted the story and made himself the victim, I have no proof, but then again, he doesn't have any proof of his story either.

The writer wrote another story about when this old Armenian man, was only 13, "Turkish and Kurdish marauders" came and attacked his village on horseback. I said "Interesting, never knew Turks and Kurds ever worked together" (because they never did, it was more likely they were all Kurdish, but alas, they always want to put the blame on Turks rather than the real killers). The attackers apparently, killed many villagers, and stabbed the boy with a bayonet and then "stole his clothes" (a grown man stole a child's clothes, very interesting). Wait wait, I missed something, a 13 year old boy was stabbed with a bayonet back in 1915, and somehow survived such a wound in a time where there weren't even any hospitals in most villages? Lies.

This is the problem. We need to apply our logic when listening to these eye-witness stories. Even an American Consul in 1915, once said that "These Orientals, they can't help but exaggerate every story" about the Kurds and Armenians.

These stories to Armenians, are a mission, a nationalistic goal, to convince everyone of a genocide, because they cannot admit the losses they suffered in World War I, were the fault of the ARF, a terrorist organization that sided with the Allies and killed, Armenians, Kurds, and Turks, alike who opposed them.

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April 24th: The Day of Justice Or Wheeling And Dealing

it is about In April 24th, 1915, approximately 250 Armenian Revolutionary Federation leaders and high ranking officers were arrested for their roles in the siege and capture of Van, an Ottoman city and their attempt to hand the city over to the Russians (Allies) during desperate hours of the Russian invasion of Ottoman Turkey in World War I.

Contrary to what Armenian Genocide supporters write, the arrests were not made in only Constantinople (present day Istanbul). Contrary to what Armenian Genocide activists say, the arrests were not of academics, clergymen, or "philosophers." These were ARF (Dashnak) members, some of them were Hunchak members as well, another terrorist organization rebelling against the Ottoman Empire and killing civilians in their rabid form of ultra-nationalism and their dream of creating a Greater Armenia. . .

Other sources report that instead of 250, 1,234 ARF and Hunchak members were arrested throughout the Ottoman provinces. Whatever the exact number, what we know for sure is they were indeed rebels.

Armenians claim they were arrested merely for being Armenian. They claim that it was the "start of the genocide." In fact, they celebrate it every year by protesting the Turkish embassy in various countries during that day. Kind of an awkward way to mourn the deaths of ancestors if you ask me. If it was the start of a genocide, then why only 250? Why not thousands and thousands being executed immediately? Why relocate them all the way to Eastern Anatolia or Syria?

Armenians answer such questions by saying that the Ottomans did not want Europeans who had diplomats in the big cities to know what was going on. If that was true, then why did they allow European and US diplomats to visit the relocation camps? US Consul Jackson was walking every day through the relocation camps with full privileges. He was bringing the Armenian families more food and money to help them.

The Ottoman governor of Aleppo Syria, spent a lot of money helping the Armenians rebuild homes and livelihoods in Aleppo. The money was approved by the Ottoman leadership.

Even Djemal Pasha was ordering soldiers to ambush bandits and Kurds who were trying to attack the families who were on route, relocating to Syria.

These are inconvenient facts that do not work for the "Armenian Cause" of recognition of genocide. They need a common enemy, the Turks, to keep themselves as an un-assimilated world-wide Armenian community. They need a reason to keep the ARF alive for 100 years (yes they still exist today). The acceptance of failure of the rebellion in World War I, is too difficult compared to the simple task of blaming the Ottoman government for defending itself during war-time against the ARF who allied themselves with the enemy.

The unfortunate deaths of thousands of Armenians and Turks who were innocent should be mourned on April 24th. However, justice was served against the ARF, but some Armenians are not ready to accept this inconvenient truth.

The Armenians suffered indeed, at the hands of the ARF, not the Ottoman Empire.


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