What the Armenians have in mind regarding Akcam's University Post

Post 1 : I'm very disappointed about this decision.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/05/29/turkish_historian_to_study_genocide/
This was a political decision and not one of scientific abilities.
They ignore armenian candidates, perhaps of prejudices and wants to exclude them from the public and scintific discourse. Armenians applauded. Is it naivety?

Turks now get the opportunity to make money with the armenian history, for example Elif Safak, a nationalist, who downgrades the armenians as backward and old-fashioned nationalists in her book baba ve pic or the bastard from istabul or what else. Ironically she gets a lot of sympathy by the armenian community.

I wonder, have one armenian read her book before praising her?

Mr Mamigonian said: "It's important that non-Armenians be involved in this sort of work" I ask him, hasn't he more than enough aunts and uncles who speak about armenians and who didn't involve the community in the public discourse?

We need people of armenian descent in the scitifiec sphere and not "good" uncles like Akcam

Akcam speaks in english different things, than he writes in turkish. His turkish articles are very similar to Mehmet Ali Birand. It seems to be, that he advices turkey how to behave against this armenian "game" (Turk: ouyun) For example, here is an article in turkish from AGOS in 30. April 2004.

The main statement::
Akcam wrote that turkey must established direct talks with armenia to stop this blame game. He say, that the diaspora try to invlove third partys to win this "game", but turkey can stop this by opening direct talks with armenia. So turkey can knock this "problem" off (turk: halletmek).

http://www.agos.com.tr/index.php?module=corner&author_id=9&cat_id=22

Son günlerde, Türk-Ermeni iliskilerine yeni ivme kazandiracak, belki gerilim yaratacak bazi gelismeler oldu. Birincisi, 21 Nisan’da Kanada Parlamentosu, “soykirimi tanima” karari aldi. Gerçi, Kanada Hükümeti karari onaylamadi ve tanima sadece sembolik düzeyde kaldi ama bu bile önemli gelisme sayiliyor. Kanada’nin bugüne kadar bu tür bir karar tasarisini sürekli red ettigini hatirlatanlar, diyorlar ki, “bu karar önemlidir, çünkü, Kanada bugüne kadar ABD’ye bakarak bu konuda bir karar almiyordu. Simdi bu kararla birlikte ABD’nin de benzeri bir karari almasi beklenmelidir.” Bu yorum sahipleri, Kanada Parlamento kararinda, dolayli bir Amerikan onayi olabilecegi spekülasyonunu yapiyorlar.

Ikinci önemli haber, New York Times gazetesinin, 1915 konusunda aldigi bir karar. Uluslararasi Soykirim Bilim Adamlari Dernegi 2003-2005 dönem yili baskani Robert Melson’un yaptigi açiklamaya göre, Dernek ile New York Times arasinda yapilan bir görüsmeden sonra, New York Times bugüne kadar, 1915’e soykirim denilmemesi konusunda koydugu yasagi kaldirmis bulunuyor. Yani, bundan böyle, New York Times 1915’e soykirim diyecek.

Bu son iki gelismeye, Californiya eyaletinin 24 Nisan’i anma günü olarak tanimasini da eklersek tablo tamamlanmis olur. Türkiye Basini ise hâlâ Baskan Bush’un, “soykirim” kelimesini kullanip kullanmadigi ile mesgul. Tuhaf bir memleketiz velhasil. Bush, baskan olmadan önce defalarca soykirim kelimesini kullanmis birisi. Simdi sadece ayip olmasin diye “soykirim” kelimesini kullanmiyor ama öyle ifadelere yer veriyor ki, hani insanin keske “soykirim” dese daha iyi, diyesi geliyor.

Türkiye’nin Kanada parlamento karari karsisinda sessiz tutum takinmasi aslinda iyiye bir isaret olarak yorulmali. Kimbilir, belki bu konuda da bazi politika degisikliklerinin gerekli oldugu görülmeye baslanmistir.

Bana sorarsaniz, ortada son derece klasiklesmis ve çok sik tekrarlanan bir durum var. Bunu biteviye tekrar eden bir oyuna da benzetebilirsiniz. Bu “oyun”un adi, üçüncü tarafi kazanma oyunudur. Taraflar (Türkiye ve Ermenistan), birbirleri ile dogrudan görüsme ve sorunu dogrudan görüsmelerle çözme yerine, üçüncü tarafi (ABD, AB, Kanada vb.) kazanarak, bu üçüncü tarafin, diger taraf üzerine baski yapmasini istiyor.

Sorunun kaynaginda ise, Türk Hükümetlerinin ortada bir sorun oldugunu bile kabule yanasmamalari yatiyor. Uluslararasi gücüne, bölgede ve dünyadaki stratejik konumuna güvenerek, üçüncü partileri kazanacagindan çok emin Türk tarafi. Aslinda haksiz da degil; bugüne kadar büyük ölçüde basarili da oldu. Ama artik bu alanda da gidecek yerin kalmadiginin görülmesi gerekiyor. Bunun en önemli nedenlerinden bir tanesi de, Türkiye’ye yeni biçilen rolde, ondan “demokrat olmasi” isteniyor olmasi.

Birseyin altini tekrar tekrar çizmekte fayda vardir. Tarih (1915) bu iki ülke (ve diyasaporalari) arasinda bir sorundur. Ortada bir sorun varsa, bu sorun da ancak taraflarin dogrudan görüsmeleri ile çözülür. Tarih üzerine pazarlik yapamayacaginiza göre, bu konuyu her iki toplum nezdinde açik ve konusulur hale getirmeniz gerekiyor.Taraflar dogrudan birbirleri ile görüserek sorunu halletmelidirler.

Üçüncü tarafi kazanma üzerine dayali stratejilerin mutlak sonuç alma sansi da zayif. Çünkü, bu strateji, Türkiye’yi uluslararasi planda yalnizlastirma ve Türkiye üzerine baski uygulayarak, soykirimi zorla kabul etmesi üzerine oturuyor. Büyük devletlerin soykirimi kabul ettirme ile Türkiye’yi kaybetme alternatifleri arasinda nasil bir tercih yaptiklari ve bundan sonra da yapacaklari konusunda çok sey söylemeye gerek yok zannederim. Fakat asil problem, Türkiye’ye zorla soykirimi kabul ettirmenin zor olmasi olgusunun da ötesinde. Bu da dogrudan Türkiye-Ermenistan iliskileri ile ilgili.

Üçüncü tarafin Türkiye üzerine baski uygulama stratejileri Türkiye-Ermenistan iliskilerinin düzelmesine olumlu bir katki yapmaz gibi geliyor bana.

Halk deyisimizle, “egri oturup, dogru konusmak gerek”. Ermeni diyasporasinin üçüncü tarafi kazanma stratejisinden vazgeçecegini beklemek hayal olur. Çünkü ellerindeki tek imkan bu. Bunun disinda tarihte yasananlari gündemde tutmalarinin baska bir imkani yok. Ancak ve ancak, Ermeni topluluklara, sorunlarini dile getirecek baska alanlar açabilirseniz, onlar da üçüncü tarafi kazanma stratejisinden vazgeçebilirler. Eger Türkiye gerçekten bu “oyundan” yani üçüncü tarafi kazanma kavgasindan rahatsizlik duyuyorsa, tarihte yasanmis sorunu dogrudan gündemine almak zorundadir. Ermenilere, konuyu dogrudan kendisi ile görüsme sansini, imkanini sunmalidir.

Aslinda Kibris konusunda Hükümetin gösterdigi tutuma bakilirsa, bu konuda ümitvar da olabiliriz. En azindan Ermenistan sinirinin açilmasi daha önemli bir sorun olarak gündeme gelebilir. Fakat üçüncü tarafi kazanma stratejisi veya oyununun görmedigi, göremedigi bir baska boyut daha var. O da haftaya.
#####

Post 2: There can be differences of opinion on this issue, but Akcam reads Ottoman Turkish and perhaps only three Armenian-American scholars do so and they have other positions. The next fighting front is the Ottoman archives.
#####

Post 3:
That's your only response to an alarmingly dangerous situation?

"There can be differences of opinion on this issue, but Akcam reads Ottoman Turkish and perhaps only three Armenian-American scholars do so and they have other positions. The next fighting front is the Ottoman archives."
#####

Post 4:
You are so prepared to attack Kaiser head on, but you are not ready to take this one due to what again? What's your reasoning behind your decision to deceive Armenians into a lulling political coma again?
#####

Post 5:
I myself see the next fighting front as restitution and reparations from Turkey.

The genocide is settled fact. We need to move on to substantive issues revolving *around* the genocide otherwise we Armenians will continue to thrash out issues only in academia. Academia is OK but it is not the primary arena for what is essentially a political issue, not a historical one. The academic and political arenas may overlap to some extent but they are still separate.
#####

Post 6:
I agree with you.
A few weeks ago I posted here that there is little chance that new and important nations would recognize
the Armenian Genocide. The US situation, hence UK, Germany, etc., is hopeless. The Moslem and Arab bloc
is, of course, hopeless, too. Africa, South America, Southeast Asia similarly. Besides, it will require huge
effort (time and money) to get just a few more to come out and acknowledge. Diaspora has done all it
can to get recognition from various states, Canadian provinces, US states, institutions and organzations.
It's time to move on, to the obvious next chapter of this struggle: reparations, compensation. To my mind,
financial compensation is very secondary, not to mention that Turkey is forever mired in economic problems.
The only compensation that makes sense and would strengthen Armenia and Armenians is the return of some of
our lands. I think various Armenian groups should start putting their just demands forward--maximalists,
minimalists and everyone is between.
#####

Post 7:
Hilmar Kaiser has a proven record of deception and betrayal of two Armenian causes. He also keeps up good relations with the Turkish Historical Society, which is totally and absolutely anti-Armenian. He also attacks most Armenian scholars including Vahakn Dadrian and Richard Hovannisian. Taner Akcam has not to my knowledge betrayed any Armenian causes, he is hated by the members of the Turkish Historical Society, and to be best of my knowledge has never attacked Armenian historians. I trust the person with the clean record.

Furthermore, you evaluation seems to me to be racist. You trust a German more than a Turk, and trust an Armenian more that a German, irrespective of their track record. That only makes sense in an imagined world. In real life we judge people not by their nationality but by their character. There are bad Armenians, bad Germans, and bad Turks. Race is not the deciding factor. It is rather the quality of a persons character.

I am not trying to deceive Armenians. They do well enough for themselves. Self delusion is rampant. I am only saying that as an individual who knows them well, I trust Taner Akcam and distrust Hilmar Kaiser. Let all Armenians think for themselves.

Although I like you, I am not sure where you are coming from. You are not the most objective person I know nor the most transparent.

I guess it is safer to hate everybody that to make personal decisions. Success can only come from taking measured chances.

Best,
#####

Post 8:
Akcams "views"???? have nothing to do with "differences of opinion", but on political intention.

It is very easy to accuse someone as racist.

I am not speaking about his descent or nationality, but of his attitude.

You relativise important informations. Do you speak turkish?

"There can be differences of opinion on this issue, but Akcam reads Ottoman Turkish and perhaps only three Armenian-American scholars do so and they have other positions. ???? The next fighting front is the Ottoman archives."
#####

Post 9:
There is evidence of double-talk below. You are ignoring it due to your subjective beliefs of what that person represents strictly based upon his English language publications and dialog.
#####
#####